Our question this week comes from Jennifer.
How would you recommend someone handle synastry where someone’s planet is conjunct another person’s node? Even though it’s not a romantic relationship, somehow this makes me feel extremely obligated and bound to the person, and I don’t quite know what to do about it. With the people who are bugging me, one has Venus conjunct my South Node (and conjunct their North), the other has Venus conjunct my North Node. Even worse, that one’s my mother. I am constantly irritated with her, but it feels like I’m married to her! I think we reinforce the bad traits in each other somehow.
Jennifer, awhile back I waded through a bunch of family birth dates to look for reversed nodes patterns. The most reversed nodes were between mother and child for some reason. Reversed nodes are not easy to live with, because the nodes represent a strong theme in our lives and in the case of reversed nodes, very simply put, you are going in opposite directions. Most often the child moved far away from the mother as soon as possible because of the irritation factor.
With a planet or planets conjunct a node, they act to amplify the nodal energy. Even Venus, who has a reputation for being pleasant, can come off as cloying. Jan Spiller, in her book Cosmic Love, suggests the South Node person may feel a sense of indebtedness to the Venus person, who is inclined to be overly permissive in this instance. The Venus/North Node conjunction is about helping each other with self-worth issues.
In the case of the North Node/Venus conjunction, finding a balance between being supportive and nurturing oneself may be easier to sort out, because we are usually more detached when it comes to the North Node. However, the South Node/Venus conjunction may take more tact to handle. If it were me, I’d opt for distance. Then, I’m a Libra and not fond of confrontation!
My mother’s North Node was in Libra conjunct my Moon/Neptune. In the end, I had to move out of town for several years to help separate my emotional baggage from hers. We were always close, but it was my choice to keep a measure of distance between us. Otherwise, I ended up feeling overwhelmed. Sometimes it’s what we need to do to preserve our sanity with nodal connections . . . maintain some distance.
Both Pat and I do synastry work (check out our reports on Love and Relationships) and either of us would be happy to offer more feedback based on the rest of the charts of the individuals involved.
I’m not sure I can add much to Neith’s response, as she was very thorough. Two things do come to mind, though:
First, a relationship is never based on one aspect, dramatic though it may be. Chances are, you have lots of other things going on between your charts, and these are feeding into your Venus-Node discomfort. If you have to interact with these people on a regular basis, you might want to order a compatibility reading to help you determine where you might be able to connect positively.
Second, while there are often cases of simple “bad chemistry” over which you have no control, that the nodes are involved with these two people tells me that there may be a valuable lesson for you if you stick with the relationship. I believe this is especially true with your mother, since it’s your North Node that’s involved here.
Not everyone is amenable to having heart-felt discussions, and you may not trust them enough to want to reveal your innermost fears and vulnerability. But at the very least, have that discussion with yourself. How do these two people reflect what’s going on inside of you? In the case of your mother, did she project her issues onto you as a child, so that now it appears that they’re yours? If so, might she be reinforcing them? My therapist in the late 80s called this the “family trance.” No matter how much we grow and evolve or how aware we are of childhood programming, when we get back together with family, we’re somehow sucked back into the old patterns.
Good luck, Jennifer!
Got a question for Neith and Pat? Click here to contact Ask Real Astrologers.
Thanks! I appreciate this (even if moving farther away is sadly not an option).
I did a little response to it, but ended up writing it over here: http://fullmoon.vox.com/library/post/more-on-nodes.html
Neith, I know you’ve posted about this before and I commented that my mother had an exact nodal reversal with me. But I’m glad to read this today because I was feeling bad about something I said a couple of days ago about her – I’d mentioned that my dad and brother were burying her ashes yesterday (Saturn is back to 2Virgo where it was in Sept. when she passed away, not that *they’re* aware of that!) and the person said something about how the dead are always with us, which was also said to me when she died. It makes me cringe, not in the way of being afraid of ghostly presences, but in the way of “ohmygod, that means she’d be intruding on me forever!!” I grieve for her, it’s a big loss for me, but her energy hanging around isn’t the consolation for me that it is for other people. And I don’t believe her energy is hanging around anyway. (Saturn is on my Venus/Pluto at 2Vir, and I think it’s more about letting go.)
Anyway, this is about Jennifer’s question about nodal interaspects and I can just confirm the difficulties they can cause. My mother and I also had a number of good and challenging aspects besides the nodal reversal that played into it too, as Pat noted.
I recall you mentioning you & your mom’s Node reversal because it supported my tentative theory! Strong aspects to the Nodes are common in synastry and I suspect they may be more like Saturn aspects in synastry. Dare i say the “K” word [karma]?! Maybe also like Saturn aspects it takes time and conscious effort to resolve the issues raised . . . carefully.
I grieve for her, it’s a big loss for me, but her energy hanging around isn’t the consolation for me that it is for other people.
Parent/child relationships seem to contain more pitfalls than any other. I loved my mother and grieve her absence but at the same time don’t miss all the emotional turmoil she generated around her. So I see your response as honest . . .
Read what you wrote on your blog and can relate. :::sigh:::
Leslee, your comment reminded me of a pivotal scene in Like Water for Chocolate. If you saw the film, you’ll recall that the mother was ghastly, and after she died, she kept reappearing to reprimand Tita. Finally, in that great scene, Tita told her mother off, and she was at peace forever after.
I had issues with my mother as well (she died two weeks before my 11th birthday), and while she never came back to “haunt” me, her programming was insidious and took me years to overcome, but that’s only because I was very young. As an adult, you can figure out what the programming was and work on clearing that energy, as you suggest. We’ve got great aspects right now for doing just that. It’s one of the better things that might come out of the disorienting multiple aspects that you’re experiencing.
Much love and courage to you.
Neith and Pat, you may remember a discussion last year or so about my dad and I having opposite nodes and our tendency to be ships passing in the night and having completely different interests (other than reading). So I can see myself in this thread, esp. with Father’s Day coming up.
Interestingly, Urania’s 9th House (http://www.uranias9thhouse.com/blog/) has the transits of June 7: “June 07: Retrograde Mercury conjuncts Venus in Gemini at the 18th degree. Remembrance of those we have loved brings beautiful reveries.” Well, not necessarily beautiful, but reveries indeed, and the previous comments seem to bear this out.
Thanks, Pat. Natally, I have Chiron (on my Descendant) exactly opposite my Moon at 18 Leo. I’m having a Chiron return, so I’m sure there’s a lot of healing of mother stuff going on. Fortunately, we had several good final years (Alzheimer’s, oddly, stopped her criticizing completely and she was nothing but sweet to me), which helped a lot. The nodes of course are also about to hit those points, too.
Well, not necessarily beautiful, but reveries indeed, and the previous comments seem to bear this out.
You are right on the mark with this comment . . . this discussion has brought up lots of memories for me too.
If anyone is interested, here’s the link to the post I wrote on inishglora’s relationship with his father. Another example of Family Synastry – Father & Son
Ironic this . . . Fortunately, we had several good final years (Alzheimer’s, oddly, stopped her criticizing completely and she was nothing but sweet to me), which helped a lot.
Irony was a large component in my relationship with my mother too. The Chiron Return is subtle but often a very significant rite of passage, especially approached with awareness [of course that can be said about life in general].
Speaking of ironic, I am now writing a training module about menopause. I’m not making this up.
All I can say here is what I said before, Neith – I’m totally behind your reversed nodes theory. My mother and I are an absolute case in point.
Speaking of ironic, I am now writing a training module about menopause. I’m not making this up.
leslee, that’s amazing! And my guess is you will do an excellent job of it too.
Thanks for your support of my theory, Jessica! I believe this is a great example of how Astrology can help us get some perspective on an emotionally charged situation. :::sigh:::
my guess is you will do an excellent job of it too
I might do a better job if it were about managing symptoms, natural health, etc. Instead it’s basically a compendium of *everything* that goes down the tubes once estrogen starts quitting. It ain’t pretty. Sigh. The training module, I mean, not the reality that I’ve seen among my friends, who seem to be handling things pretty well. Which I have to keep reminding myself of. :-)
Yes, leslee, it’s possible to skate through menopause reasonably sane and you are lucky to have women friends to demonstrate this. There is far more info easily available now than even 10 yrs ago, thanks in part to the type of work you & others are doing.